Casa Árabe’s coordinator does not avoid any questions posed, but in her responses you can tell we are standing before a graduate in Political Science -with a specialization in International Relations- from the University of Bologna. She does not take long to come up with her answers, but when transcribing them, it becomes obvious that she carefully selects the words she pronounces with a slight Italian accent.

With a Syrian father and Italian mother, international relations flow through the blood in Amira’s veins. In her veins, she also feels the disasters besieging her second homeland, which has sunk into a horrific civil war tinged by religious fundamentalism. The same fundamentalism that has struck at the heart of Europe. The interview begins with this topic, in one of Casa Árabe’s most lovely rooms, the one where its medieval frescoes are on display. The half-hour conversation is to deal with the apparent mutual lack of knowledge between cultures, the hotbed of unrest in the Middle East, the symbolic presence of Cordoba and the city’s economic potential.

Thus, we begin.

QUESTION: When terrible attacks like those last week in Paris take place, I always think about the people like you, who are working on joint projects in the Muslim world to bring people closer and promote understanding. Every time it seems like we move forward, murders cause everything to turn back. And our fear of otherness returns.

ANSWER: At Casa Árabe, Islamophobia is just one of the challenges we deal with. In general terms, if we discuss the economy –one of the institution’s lines of work and development–, we are making great strides forward. If we discuss topics involving effectiveness, quality and the proper orientation of intervention by states -what we refer to as “governance”- we are also taking important steps in the right direction. The same is true for cultural matters. But the truth is that, when dealing with topics of integration and minorities, it is increasingly delicate to talk about Islam.

Q: But the Islamophobia you are taking about, that simple fear of what is different, is cross-cutting and might affect any topic we could discuss, whether economics, culture or politics.

A: Sometimes we realize that, regardless of the focus we try to give to an activity or the audience which we are addressing, merely because of the fact that we are speaking about countries with a Muslim or Arab majority –people often confuse the two terms–, friction arises amongst a certain part of the public. Just because we are called Casa Árabe, we already perceive a certain hesitation. So we often have to get back to the basics and explain what it means to be Arab, what it means to be Muslim,  the differences between them, what Islam is, which countries are Arab, which are Muslim...

    “When dealing with topics of integration and minorities, it is increasingly delicate to talk about Islam.”

Q: So, why are we stuck at this point where we still need to explain such basic concepts even though we have now reached the twenty-first century? After centuries of contact and relations, why are we still so divided? Why is a place like Casa Árabe still needed?

A: It is basically due to a lack of knowledge and information, quality information. Unfortunately, the Arab world and Muslims are shown in the media every day, but never for positive events. There is always an interpretation or reading of every region in the world. That is true. But in this specific case, a lot of negative news is produced. And if we are always talking about a certain people because of wars, attacks or negative events, the lack of knowledge will persist, because nobody looks beyond the direct, immediate information. Which ends up creating fear, because the image they get is one of violence.

Q: Isn’t this lack of knowledge mutual? I understand what you are saying about our Western viewpoint, which can simplify everything and end up confusing concepts: Islam, Jihadism, attacks. But I don’t know whether from the Muslim world -which is huge, broad and diverse- there may also be a lack of knowledge about the way Western culture view the world and this, in general, might allow for radical interpretations like those of Charlie Hebdo and the Mohammed caricatures.

A: This brings up a topic that it is essential to clarify from the very outset. The Muslim world is not something alien to us; the Muslim world is here. There are Muslims in Europe, and we are European. The people who committed the attacks in Paris were French. We cannot always think that this is something that must necessarily come from outside, that does not affect us or belong to us. We have to keep it clear that Islam is also Europe. And vice versa. If we start out from that perspective, from this focus, many things may change. Because, if we always relate with Islam as something alien to us, something that comes from outside, something related with immigrants, we will never achieve full integration. And that is the fundamental basis of the problems in a large part of Europe today.

    “We often have to get back to the basics and explain what it means to be Arab, what it means to be Muslim, what the differences are between them, what Islam is, which countries are Arab, which are Muslim...”

Q: But we are talking about people who belong to the second or third generation. They are the descendants of the earliest immigrants. And we are talking about countries like France that have a historically close relationship with the Maghreb region and Africa. Are we really just dealing with a problem of integration? Could there be more to it?

A: It is a combination of many things. What has most surprised me about the reactions to the Paris attacks is the need most people had to label themselves. Je suis Charlie. Suddenly, everyone is Charlie. But, come on. How can we interpret such terrible events –it is impossible to ignore just how terrible–which are so complicated to analyze, simply by saying that we are all Charlie. It needs to be taken in parts, decoded, understood. An attack is an attack. It is a violent crime that must be condemned. There is no argument about that. There is no shadow of a doubt. However, if we want to analyze who the terrorists were, what motivated them, or what their personal and social environment was like, we need more than a half-hour. The problem is that we live in a community of social networks,   media and forms of expression in which immediate messages reign, when I believe what needs to be done is to stop for a while and think. What just happened? Why did it happen? We need to take our thoughts a bit further.

Q: Instead of that, it appears as if we were all digging deeper into the trenches that divide us and protect us from otherness. There is already talk of limiting the movements of certain people, of reducing certain freedoms... Those attacks are distancing us even more.

A: Let me get back to what I was saying before. The need –quote/unquote– that everyone has to reach a decision, to choose between whether they are Charlie or a terrorist, does not actually exist. For example, I can be a person who did not agree with what Charlie Hebdo did, but who does not agree with the violent attacks either. Muslims have even been asked to make gestures to distance themselves from the events that took place in Paris. But where is it written that simply because someone is Muslim they might be in favor of what took place? I insist, however: these are not events that can be responded to or discussed in 24 hours or in a way that politicians can provide clear, obvious, resounding, immediate responses. Without a doubt, any measure that is taken must be thought over very carefully.

    “If we are always talking about a certain people because of wars, attacks or negative events, the lack of knowledge will persist, because nobody looks beyond the direct, immediate information.”

Q: Muslims are the people suffering the yoke of violent fundamentalists the most, in countries like Syria, Iraq and Nigeria, where it has been reported that Boko Haram’s militias killed approximately 2,000 people a few days ago.

A: Yes, and nobody said “I’m Nigerian” in social networks... What is happening in Syria and Iraq has been unleashed, it is true in part, by radical Islamist groups whose primary victims are the local population, which may or may not be Muslim, but they are certainly civilians. At the international level, the truth is that visibility is held by these violent groups. The problem is that it has become a little bit harder to be Muslim after the events in Paris, the demonstrations in Germany and the declarations in Italy, at the international level –despite the integration and normalization of Muslims outside Muslim countries at present–. You can see this in everyday life. Maybe if you are Spanish and you don’t have an Arab name, nobody will identify you with your religion, but if you have a name which in some way might make people think you are of Muslim origin, they start to view you with different eyes.

    Muslims have been asked to make gestures to distance themselves from the events that took place in Paris. But where is it written that just because someone is Muslim they must be in favor of what took place there?

Q: You have lived in Syria. Did you ever imagine the degree of brutality which has been reached in the war? Despite the fact that under the Bashar al-Assad regime, Syria was considered a country with a considerable level of culture, education, health care...

A: I am half Syrian and I often spent my vacations there as a child. And when the revolution broke out, I was living there. Nobody at that time believed that what has happened would occur. But then again, we didn’t think that what people were calling the “Arab Spring” in Tunisia or Egypt could take place in Syria either. The general sensation was that Syria would never be hit by that wave. But it came. Due to a series of reasons that lie in the geopolitics and structure of the country, what began as a revolution has played out in a completely different way from what occurred in the countries I mentioned ealier, like Tunisia and Egypt. But what is happening now is simply out of control. I left Syria in May of 2011, and unfortunately it is now a divided country in which we no longer know what will happen.

Q: What type of war is taking place there? It seems like a civil war with many different fronts, religious motivations...

A: One thing is a civil war, and another is a religious confrontation. And we can’t say that they are both occurring at the same time and in the same place. If we discuss ideological –not to mention, strategic– confrontations in the Middle East in general, we do see that in recent years the distance has grown larger between the Sunni and Shia Muslim worlds, which at certain times influences the political dynamics and stability in the region. However, when we discuss the confrontations in Syria, religion has very little to do with it: we are talking about conquering territory and energy resources. In Syria, as we already know, the most important Jihadist groups are Daesh (the name of ISIS in Arabic) and Jabhat al-Nusra. Then there is the Free Army, active mainly in the country’s northwest, and the National Army which is acting in the areas under the control of Damascus, or what is left of the nation.

    “I left Syria in May of 2011, and unfortunately it is now a divided country in which we no longer know what will happen.

Q: Since the killings in Paris, there has been a tense environment. It seems to be pervasive amongst politicians, but also among the people, including Cordoba.

A: I am not an alarmist. I don’t have the data, but I do not believe Cordoba would be a sensitive target. Another matter is whether, due to national security, the decision has been made to increase security levels. But I feel no sort of feeling of fear whatsoever.

Q: Cordoba is a nearly mythical icon in the Muslim world, a symbol of its eras of greatest splendor. And in some way, the city government, businesspeople, shop owners and yourselves, you are all trying to take advantage of that symbolism to open the city up to a new economic market, the halal market, aimed at Muslim consumers.

A: The concept of the “Alliance of Civilizations” spoke above all of values. And some of them may be facts. Undoubtedly, Cordoba holds that positive, emblematic value in the West’s collective memory and that of Muslim communities. It is an asset belonging to the city which must be brought back in terms of the future. As a city which acts as a bridge between East and West, and a meeting point with Latin America, Cordoba is very well-situated geographically, and that is a factor which works in favor of the city’s development. We are taking measures aimed in that direction. Development of the halal cluster in Cordoba has the added value that it simply only exists in Cordoba, an emblematic city. None other could contribute anything like it.

Q: Are politicians and businesspeople in general already aware of the potential that could be created for the city?

A: Casa Árabe is made up of a consortium in which the Municipal Government of Cordoba plays a role, as well. As a result, we support any activity by the municipal government that might have some connection with the Arab or Muslim world. Even though we have not been present as active members in the study or creation process, they have always relied on our consultation and participation at specific times. I have personally taken part in the different events and meetings held, and what I do see in the streets is a great deal of interest towards everything related with the word halal. There were more than 80 companies taking part in the activities held this Wednesday. And not all of them from Cordoba. Nowadays, perhaps because of the seeds we have already sown, there is a great deal of interest towards these potential consumers, who may benefit us as both exporters of products and recipients of tourism.

    “Development of the halal cluster in Cordoba has the added value that it simply only exists in Cordoba, an emblematic city. None other could contribute anything like it.”

Q: Could the debate taking place in Cordoba over the topic of the Mosque-Cathedral be a barrier against projecting that image of harmony and coexistence between cultures in which the city seeks to position itself as part of the halal economy?

A: Any possible debate over a topic which is relatively sensitive to the Muslim public should have no effect whatsoever on the implementation of strictly economic development. However, it is obvious that the more welcoming a city is, the better.

Q: But in the meantime, business is business.

A: Exactly (laughter)

Q: So, let’s go back to the topic of the lack of knowledge we possess about the Muslim world, that we were discussing earlier. Could the economy be capable of closing that distance? From some of the comments you can read in this newspaper every time we publish news about the halal topic, in addition to ignorance, it appears as if some people display simple fear.

A: The fact that we are developing close economic relationships with a different culture and different consumers, coupled with the fact that we are receiving more and more tourists from these other cultures, will undoubtedly help dispel certain fears and surmount certain barriers. That is part of the work done by Casa Árabe: informing about and promoting real, specific ties and bridges that can be used to take further steps from a cultural and economic point of view. And when good business takes place between people, normally there are never any cultural problems.

Q: Does this closeness aimed at getting to know the other people have to begin in childhood, with education?

A: Education means everything, no matter what realm you are discussing. If we are brought up with fear, we will always be fearful. If we are brought up with a concern for getting to know others, not just Arabs and Muslims, we will become much happier. It is impossible to learn about all cultures, but we can learn about those closest to us. That would be important.

    “If we are brought up with fear, we will always be fearful. If we are brought up with a concern for getting to know others, not just Arabs and Muslims, we will become much happier”

Q: But don’t you think that even now we are falling deeper into the same ignorance that got us to this point?

A: No. Reality forces you to change, no matter what. I was the first girl ever in my city to ask for a pork-free meal in the dining hall at my school. Suddenly, my classmates saw a person who ate food different from theirs. And that never caused any problems. After me, there have been thousands of children with the same request. It has become normalized. In other words, when you find children who originate from different countries and cultures in a classroom, the system is forced to change course, because it is required by the very image you see before you. At least I hope so.

Q: Even so, we continue to hear debates in the world of education over the use of the hijab, for example.

A: That is not a question of values, though. It is a matter of policies which are gradually adopted.

Q: Nor are the solutions going to be found from one day to the next.

A: No, but it is increasingly necessary to find them. We have to avoid putting labels on people. For example, the label about second, third or fourth generation immigrants. Just because someone’s grandparents, or great-grandparents, or great-great-grandparents were foreign, their descendants are made to bear that burden which makes them feel like outsiders who are different. If we want to move towards full integration, we have to change the vocabulary we use little by little, as well.

 And when good business takes place between people, normally there are never any cultural problems.

Photo: Madero Cubero / Cordópolis